United States Senate Inquiry
Day 1
Testimony of
Charles H. Lightoller
Senator SMITH.
What is your name?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Charles Herbert Lightoller.
Senator SMITH.
Mr. Lightoller, where do you reside?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Netley Abbey, Hampshire.
Senator SMITH.
England?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
England.
Senator SMITH.
How old are you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Thirty-eight.
Senator SMITH.
What is your business?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Seaman.
Senator SMITH.
How long have you been in the service or employment?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Thirteen years and three months.
Senator SMITH.
How extensive has been your service in that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I do not quite follow you.
Senator SMITH.
How much service have you seen? In what capacities?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
In all the capacities in the White Star service - fourth, third, second, and
first officer.
Senator SMITH.
You have been in the White Star service during all of that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What official positions have you held?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Fourth, third, second, and first officer.
Senator SMITH.
What position do you occupy now?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Second officer of the Titanic.
Senator SMITH.
How long have you been second officer?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Altogether, about seven years.
Senator SMITH.
When did you go aboard the Titanic?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
In Belfast.
Senator SMITH.
When?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
March 19 or 20.
Senator SMITH.
Did you make the so-called trial trips?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Of what did they consist?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Turning circles and adjusting compasses.
Senator SMITH.
In what waters?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Belfast Lough.
Senator SMITH.
How extensive is that lough?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I can hardly say offhand without seeing a chart.
Senator SMITH.
Have you any data here that shows?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No.
Senator SMITH.
Just state as nearly as you can.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It may be about 15 miles long, widening out from a few miles wide to perhaps 7
miles. That is only approximate, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Have you ever been in that water before?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Only passing through.
Senator SMITH.
How did you happen to pass through it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Going into Belfast or coming out bound to some port. I do not mean in an
official capacity; as a passenger. I have been through it in an official
capacity about 11 years ago.
Senator SMITH.
Is that water usually selected for these trial tests for new ships?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
What was the condition of the weather when you made this trial test?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Light breeze, clear weather, sir.
Senator SMITH.
From the time you boarded the Titanic did you at any time
encounter any rough weather?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You were always in smooth water, so-called?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Does that include up to the time of this collision?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Of what do these trial tests consist?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Turning circles.
Senator SMITH.
I wish you would describe that a little more fully. Under what head of steam
and how fast would the boat be moving?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Under various speeds.
Senator SMITH.
In how large a radius would these circles be made?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Turning circles consists of seeing in what space the ship will turn under
certain helms with the engines at various speeds.
Senator SMITH.
Was this boat tested at its maximum speed?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That I could not say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What was the maximum speed of this boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That I could not say, sir. She was never put, to my knowledge, to her maximum
speed.
Senator SMITH.
What did you understand it to be?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 22 1/2 to 23 knots.
Senator SMITH.
From whom did you get that information?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
General rumor, sir
Senator SMITH.
Did you talk with the boat's officers?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
From talk generally; yes. It was only an approximate idea.
Senator SMITH.
How much time was spent in the test?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say exactly.
Senator SMITH.
Approximately?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About five hours.
Senator SMITH.
During that time those circles were made?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And the ship reversed?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And put on a straight course?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And under full head?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say, sir. She steamed for a certain distance under approximately a
full head of steam; but how much steam was on I could not say, or what pressure
of steam.
Senator SMITH.
How many engines were
there in this boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Two reciprocating and one turbine.
Senator SMITH.
Were they all working on the trial test?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
So far as I know, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What do you know about that? Were you in the engine room?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; I was on my station, aft.
Senator SMITH.
Where was your station?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The after-end of the ship.
Senator SMITH.
Then you would not, of your own knowledge, know whether its entire power was
being tested out or not?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I should not; no, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Five hours was the length of time spent in making those tests?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Approximately the length of time occupied in turning those circles.
Senator SMITH.
What was the next thing that was done with the ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
She was run a certain distance on a comparatively straight course and back
again.
Senator SMITH.
How far?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say without a chart, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How long did it take you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Approximately four hours.
Senator SMITH.
To make the straight run?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And return?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
And return.
Senator SMITH.
Four hours all together, two out and two back?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Two out and two back. That is only approximate.
Senator SMITH.
Would you think from what you observed in the movements of this ship that it
was going pretty fast?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
For a ship of that size, a fair speed.
Senator SMITH.
Fair speed?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
A fair speed.
Senator SMITH.
What would you call real good speed?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
When the ship was built, we only expected her to go 21 knots, therefore all
over 21 we thought very good.
Senator SMITH.
This ship exceeded 21 knots?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
On the trials? I am not speaking of the trials. I do not know what the speed
was; I have no idea.
Senator SMITH.
I understand you to say that you expected to get 21 knots out of her?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The builders, I presume, to get 21.
Senator SMITH.
That was the general rumor?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
Among the officers?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
I suppose that was the hope, too, of the officers?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Exactly.
Senator SMITH.
What boat had you been on before you went on board the Titanic?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The Oceanic.
Senator SMITH.
The Oceanic, of the same line?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Of the same line.
Senator SMITH.
How large a boat is the Oceanic?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Seventeen thousand tons gross.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know her maximum speed?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Twenty-one knots.
Senator SMITH.
I want to be sure I get the results of these trial tests accurately. I want you
to tell me how long it took to make these tests. The straightaway tests and the
circle tests altogether consumed how much time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Approximately six or seven hours. I could not say any nearer than that.
Senator SMITH.
What time of day did you begin these tests?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
In the morning.
Senator SMITH.
How early?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 10 o'clock.
Senator SMITH.
Was it clear weather?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Perfectly clear.
Senator SMITH.
Was there any sea?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Very little.
Senator SMITH.
And after about seven hours the tests were concluded?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
With the exception of full speed astern; that is to see in what distance the
ship will stop with the engines full speed astern - what we call the full speed
astern test.
Senator SMITH.
Was that made that day?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How long did that take?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That was only the matter of minutes.
Senator SMITH.
A few minutes?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
A few minutes.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know who was aboard the Titanic in these trial tests?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
A great number. I know some of them.
Senator SMITH.
Please state those that you know.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Capt. Smith; Mr. Murdoch, chief
officer; myself, first officer; Mr. Blair, second
officer; Mr.
Pitman, third officer; Mr. Boxhall, fourth
officer; Mr.
Lowe, fifth officer; Mr. Moody, sixth
officer; and Mr.
Andrews, of Harland & Wolff.
Senator SMITH.
Representing the builders?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir. I could not say anyone else with any accuracy.
Senator SMITH.
Who was the chief engineer?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Mr. Bell, chief
engineer; Mr.
Ferguson [Farquharson], second engineer; Mr. Hesketh, also
second. That is all I know.
Senator SMITH.
How many men constituted the crew?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Seamen, you are speaking of?
Senator SMITH.
Yes.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 71 all told; officers and crew.
Senator SMITH.
And seamen?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
On the trial test?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Oh, no, sir. I am not speaking of the trial.
Senator SMITH.
How many men constituted the crew on the trial tests?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 30 of the crew and about 30 of what we call runners.
Senator SMITH.
Were there any guests on the boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I believe there were; I could not say who.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know who they were?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Were there any of the officers of the White Star Line?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say with certainty, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You do not recall seeing any of them?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I do not recall; no, sir. I believe there were some on board; but I can not
remember who they were. I was not brought in contact with them.
Senator SMITH.
Was Mr. Ismay aboard?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not to my knowledge, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you hear afterwards that he was on board?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You can not recall any officer of the company that was?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
I mean any general officer?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Or director?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Was there anybody aboard representing the British Government?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not to my knowledge, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Were there any other officers of any other White Star Line boats?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir
Senator SMITH.
After the final test, what was done with the boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
We proceeded toward
Southampton.
Senator SMITH.
Immediately?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Almost immediately after taking on board a few things that had been left
behind, which were required for the completion of the ship.
Senator SMITH.
What?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
So far as I know, requisites down in the galley, cooking apparatus, a few
chairs, and such things as that.
Senator SMITH.
Was the life-saving equipment -
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Oh, no, sir; nothing like that.
Senator SMITH.
Was the life-saving equipment complete?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Of what did it consist?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The necessary number of lifeboats.
Senator SMITH.
I wish you would say how that is determined, if you can.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
By the number of people on board.
Senator SMITH.
You do not know how many there are on board until you are ready to start?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No sir.
Senator SMITH.
Is it not determined by the number of accommodations rather than by the number
of people who get aboard?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
There must be life-saving apparatus for every one on board, regardless of
accommodations.
Senator SMITH.
Yes; but what I desire to know is whether in each stateroom on each deck, in
all classes, whether there is any rule, and whether it was followed at that
time, so far as you know, in equipping this boat with life preservers and
lifebelts and anything else that might appropriately go into the rooms and be
upon the decks of a boat of that character?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
She was perfectly complete throughout, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How many lifeboats were
there?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Sixteen.
Senator SMITH.
All of the same type?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Consisting of 14 lifeboats, 2 emergency boats, and 4 collapsible boats.
Senator SMITH.
Tell us whether they were new entirely.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Entirely new.
Senator SMITH.
And in their proper places?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
In their proper places.
Senator SMITH.
With the necessary lowering apparatus?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Everything complete, examined by the officers of the ship.
Senator SMITH.
Was a test of the lifeboats made before you sailed for Southampton?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
All the gear was tested.
Senator SMITH.
Were the lifeboats lowered?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Under whose orders?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The officers, principally my orders.
Senator SMITH.
Under your orders?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
Did you see the work done?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I did.
Senator SMITH.
Tell just what was done.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
All the boats on the ship were swung out and those that I required were lowered
down as far as I wanted them - some all the way down, and some dropped into the
water.
Senator SMITH.
I wish you would give the proportion that went into the water.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About six.
Senator SMITH.
Six into the water?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
And the others lowered?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Part of the way - as far as I thought necessary.
Senator SMITH.
Part of the way?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
Of course, part of the way would not do anybody much good on a sinking ship. I
assume you did that for the purpose of trying the gear, and not for the purpose
of testing the security of the lifeboats?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It is principally the gear that we test. The lifeboats we know to be all right.
Senator SMITH.
These boats were lowered from what deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
From the boat
deck.
Senator SMITH.
Is that the sun deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That is the top deck.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know how far it was from that top deck to the water?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Seventy feet.
Senator SMITH.
What time did you reach Southampton?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About midnight.
Senator SMITH.
Of what night?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say.
Senator SMITH.
Think it over.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I think it was the morning of the 4th of April.
Senator SMITH.
What makes you think it was the morning of the 4th?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Because we sailed on the 10th.
Senator SMITH.
How long did it take to make the run to Southampton?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 24 hours.
Senator SMITH.
Did you strike any heavy weather?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How fast did you go?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 18 knots.
Senator SMITH.
What was done when you reached Southampton?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The ship was heeled for stability.
Senator SMITH.
Just describe that.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The builders knowing the exact weights on board, additional weights are placed
on each side of the ship. A pendulum is suspended in the most convenient place
in the ship with a plumb on the end of it, and a method of registering the
difference with the plumb line; a number of men then transfer the weights from
one side of the ship to the other, bringing all the weight on one side and
transferring the whole of it back again; and with this, I believe the builders
are able to draw up a stability scale.
Senator SMITH.
From what part of the ship are these tests made?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The weights carried over, you mean?
Senator SMITH.
Yes. From the upper part?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The "C"
deck - the third deck down.
Senator SMITH.
About the center of the ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not quite the center of the ship.
Senator SMITH.
Were there any tests made from the upper deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not that I know of, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What else was done at Southampton?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
We shipped coal, provisions, cargo was taken on board, passed the Board of
Trade tests and survey.
Senator SMITH.
Did some British officer make the Board of Trade test?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The Southampton Board of Trade officer.
Senator SMITH.
What did he do?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
He carried out the requisite tests required by the Board of Trade.
Senator SMITH.
Did you accompany him?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes; I was with him part of the time.
Senator SMITH.
Who was this officer of the British Board of Trade?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Capt. Clark. [Maurice Clarke - Assistant Emigration Officer]
Senator SMITH.
He was an officer?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
He was purely a representative of the British Board of Trade, appointed by the
British Board of Trade, with post at the port of Southampton; surveyor.
Senator SMITH.
He was assigned to Southampton?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How old a man was he?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 45.
Senator SMITH.
Of English nationality?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
Had you ever seen him before?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Frequently.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know whether he had any experience in marine service?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
All surveyors, I understand, have been in command. I know he had for a number
of years.
Senator SMITH.
What does that mean - that he had been "in command"?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
In command of a British ship; captain.
Senator SMITH.
How much time did this officer spend on the ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That I could not say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How much did he spend when he was with you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About four hours.
Senator SMITH.
Then did you turn him over to some other officer?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
To what other officer?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I think it was the first.
Senator SMITH.
What is his name?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Mr. Murdoch.
Senator SMITH.
Did he survive the Titanic survivor?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir. He was chief then.
Senator SMITH.
He did not survive?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know whether any other officer of the ship accompanied this inspector
during his stay on board?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That I could not say with certainty.
Senator SMITH.
What is your best judgment about it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I should say the marine superintendent was with him the whole time.
Senator SMITH.
The marine superintendent?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Of the White Star Line, at Southampton.
Senator SMITH.
What is his name?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Capt. Steele.
Senator SMITH.
How old a man is he?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 50.
Senator SMITH.
Is he a commander?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Had you ever seen one of those ocean liners inspected by the British Board of
Trade representative before?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Frequently.
Senator SMITH.
How thorough are they about it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Speaking of Capt. Clark, we call him a nuisance because he is so strict.
Senator SMITH.
Capt. Clark?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Is he the marine officer?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That is the Board of Trade representative.
Senator SMITH.
In what respect is he a nuisance?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Because he makes us fork out every detail.
Senator SMITH.
I should suppose you would be quite willing to do that?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Perfectly willing.
Senator SMITH.
Do you mean by that that he would call attention to the absence of tools,
implements, and devices necessary for the ship's full equipment?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir. He would insist upon them all being absolutely brought out on deck
every time.
Senator SMITH.
On what?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Everything that contributes to the ship's equipment.
Senator SMITH.
What would that consist of?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The whole of the ship's life-saving equipment.
Senator SMITH.
Life preservers?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Life preservers throughout the ship, all the boats turned out, uncovered, all
the tanks examined, all the breakers examined, oars counted, boats turned out,
rudders tried, all the davits tried - there was innumerable detail work.
Senator SMITH.
And the boats lowered?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The boats lowered, put in the water, and pulled out, and brought back again,
and if he was not satisfied, sent back again.
Senator SMITH.
And the ropes and chains tested?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
When he inspected your ship, about where would he find these life preservers?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Lifebelts in every room, in every compartment, where, as we say, there was
habitation, where a man could live.
Senator SMITH.
Would that include the steerage?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, undoubtedly; and the crew's quarters.
Senator SMITH.
In the steerage do they have rooms?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Are they equipped?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
With the same apparatus for the preservation of life with an emergency as the
first and second cabins?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Identically the same.
Senator SMITH.
You used the term "life belt."
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
I wish you would describe a lifebelt.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It consists of a series of pieces of cork - allow me to show you by
illustration - a hole is cut in there (illustrating) for the head to go
through and this falls over front and back, and there are tapes from the back
then tied around the front. It is a new idea and very effective, because no one
can make a mistake in putting it on.
Senator SMITH.
Is there cork on both sides?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
On both sides.
Senator SMITH.
Are the arms free?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Free, absolutely.
Senator SMITH.
And when in the water does this adhere or extend?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It is tied to the body.
Senator SMITH.
It is tied to the body?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Have you ever had one of these on?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Have you ever been into the sea with one of them?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Where?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
From the Titanic.
Senator SMITH.
In this recent collision?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How long were you in the sea with a lifebelt on?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Between half an hour and an hour.
Senator SMITH.
What time did you leave the ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I didn't leave it.
Senator SMITH.
Did the ship leave you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you stay until the ship had departed entirely?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
I wish you would tell us whether the suction incidental to the sinking of this
vessel was a great deterrent in making progress away from the boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It was hardly noticeable.
Senator SMITH.
From what point on the vessel did you leave it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
On top of the officers' quarters.
Senator SMITH.
And where were the officers' quarters?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Immediately abaft the bridge.
Senator SMITH.
Immediately abaft the bridge?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Abaft the wheelhouse.
Senator SMITH.
Was that pretty well toward the top of the vessel?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Were the lifeboats gone when you found yourself without any footing?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
All except one.
Senator SMITH.
Where was that one?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
In the tackles, trying to get it over.
Senator SMITH.
Did not the tackle work readily?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What delayed it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It was the third boat over by the same tackles.
Senator SMITH.
The third boat over by the same tackles?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
From what deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The boat
deck.
Senator SMITH.
The sun deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The sun deck.
Senator SMITH.
How close were you to this lifeboat at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Fifteen feet
Senator SMITH.
Was it filled before starting to lower it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It was not high enough to lower.
Senator SMITH.
Why?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It was not high enough to lower. They were endeavoring to get it over the
bulwarks, outboard; swinging it; getting it over the bulwarks. When it was over
the bulwarks, then it would hang in the tackles, and until it hung in the
tackles it was impossible to put anyone in it.
Senator SMITH.
How far below the boat deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Above the boat deck.
Senator SMITH.
How far above the boat deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 4 feet 6 inches.
Senator SMITH.
And it was lowered to the boat deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It did not get over the bulwarks to be lowered.
Senator SMITH.
The last you saw of it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Who was managing this tackle?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The first officer, Mr. Murdoch.
Senator SMITH.
He lost his life?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
Did you see Mr.
Ismay at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you, at any time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Where?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
On the boat deck.
Senator SMITH.
How long before she sunk?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
At first, before we started to uncover the boats, when we started to uncover
the boat.
Senator SMITH.
I did not quite catch that.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
When we started to uncover the boats.
Senator SMITH.
How long was that after the collision?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 20 minutes.
Senator SMITH.
What was he doing?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Standing still.
Senator SMITH.
Dressed?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say, sir; it was too dark.
Senator SMITH.
Was he talking to anyone?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
He was alone?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
On what deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
On the boat deck.
Senator SMITH.
Were there any other passengers on that deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not that I saw at that time.
Senator SMITH.
Did you see any there afterwards?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Plenty.
Senator SMITH.
Had the passengers the right to go on the deck from below?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Every right.
Senator SMITH.
There was no restraint at the staircase?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
None.
Senator SMITH.
Was that true as to the steerage?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The steerage have no right up there, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did they on that occasion?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Oh, yes.
Senator SMITH.
There was no restraint?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Oh, absolutely none.
Senator SMITH.
There must have been considerable confusion.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not that I noticed.
Senator SMITH.
Was everybody orderly?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Perfectly.
Senator SMITH.
How long did you see Mr. Ismay there alone?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
As I passed.
Senator SMITH.
Where were you going at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I was attending to the boats, seeing the men distributed, having the boat
covers stripped off.
Senator SMITH.
You say you were 15 feet from this last boat when it was lowered?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It was not lowered, sir. I was 15 feet from it when they were endeavoring to
get it into the tackles.
Senator SMITH.
Did you go nearer to it than that.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Did not have the opportunity, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Why not?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The ship went down.
Senator SMITH.
Was this boat ever lowered?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
It remained in the tackle?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
When did you see Mr. Ismay, with reference to the attempted lowering of this
boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I saw Mr. Ismay, as I stated to you, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Only once?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And that was about 20 minutes after the collision?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And there were no other passengers on that deck at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not that I noticed. I should notice Mr. Ismay naturally more than I should
notice passengers.
Senator SMITH.
Why?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Because I know him.
Senator SMITH.
How long have you known him?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Since I have been in the company.
Senator SMITH.
Are you quite well acquainted with the officers of this company?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I naturally know them by sight.
Senator SMITH.
Does he know you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Oh, he knew me; yes.
Senator SMITH.
Did he speak to you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Who was he with at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No one.
Senator SMITH.
Neither spoke to the other?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did he see you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir. I don't know whether he recognized me.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know where the captain was at
that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you see him on the bridge?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Previous to that I had seen him on the bridge.
Senator SMITH.
How long before that?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About three minutes after the impact.
Senator SMITH.
Did he leave the bridge or did he remain there and leave your point of
occupation?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I left.
Senator SMITH.
You left?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Where did you go?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Back to my berth.
Senator SMITH.
What for?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
There was no call for me to be on deck.
Senator SMITH.
No call, or no cause?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
As far as I could see, neither call nor cause.
Senator SMITH.
You mean from the moment of the impact?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you believe the boat was in danger?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You felt that it was not a serious accident?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I did not think it was a serious accident
Senator SMITH.
What was the force of the impact?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
A slight jar and a grinding sound.
Senator SMITH.
From front or side?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Well, naturally I should think it was in front, whether I could tell or not.
Senator SMITH.
You could not tell exactly?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Was there a noise?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Very little.
Senator SMITH.
Very little?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Very little.
Senator SMITH.
Did you go back to your room under the impression that the boat had not been
injured?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Didn't you tell Mr. Ismay that that night?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I had not seen Mr. Ismay then.
Senator SMITH.
Did you tell him that afterwards?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Really, I could not say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Where were you when the impact occurred?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
In my berth.
Senator SMITH.
Asleep?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir, I was just getting off asleep.
Senator SMITH.
You arose?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you dress yourself?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What did you put on, if anything?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Nothing.
Senator SMITH.
You went out of your room?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Forward?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Out on deck.
Senator SMITH.
On deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes; I walked forward.
Senator SMITH.
You walked forward how far?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
A matter of 10 feet, until I could see the bridge distinctly.
Senator SMITH.
You could see the bridge distinctly; and the captain was on
the bridge?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The captain and first
officer.
Senator SMITH.
Did you see any other officers at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I did not notice them.
Senator SMITH.
Had no alarm been given at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
None.
Senator SMITH.
How much time elapsed after the impact and your appearance on the deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I should say about two or three minutes.
Senator SMITH.
Two or three minutes?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Two minutes.
Senator SMITH.
Then you returned? How long did you remain on deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About two or three minutes.
Senator SMITH.
At that time who else was on deck at that point?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Excluding the bridge, I saw no one except the third officer, who
left his berth shortly after I did.
Senator SMITH.
Did he join you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
Did you confer about what had happened?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What did you conclude had happened?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Nothing much.
Senator SMITH.
You knew there had been a collision?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not necessarily a collision.
Senator SMITH.
You knew you had struck something?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What did you assume it to be?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Ice.
Senator SMITH.
Ice?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Why?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That was the conclusion one naturally jumps to around the Banks there.
Senator SMITH.
Had you seen ice before?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Had there been any tests taken of the temperature of the water?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
A test is taken of the water every two hours from the time the ship leaves
until she returns to port.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know whether these tests were made?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
They were.
Senator SMITH.
Did you make them?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Oh, no, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Were they made under your direction?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How do you know they were made?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It is the routine of the ship.
Senator SMITH.
You assume they were made?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
But you can not say of your own knowledge that they were?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not of my own actually seeing; no, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How were these tests made?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
By drawing water from over the side in a canvas bucket and placing a
thermometer in it.
Senator SMITH.
How far down did you dip this water, did you try to get surface water, or did
you try to get below?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It is impossible to get water below; just the surface.
Senator SMITH.
You get surface water entirely?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Those tests had been made that day?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
At intervals of two hours?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
This was on Sunday?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you hear anything about the rope or chain or wire to which the test basins
were attached not reaching the water at any time during those tests?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The bucket, you speak of?
Senator SMITH.
Yes.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Would a complaint of that character come to you if it had been true?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Very quickly, I should think, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How would it come to you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
From the person who saw it, I should think.
Senator SMITH.
It would be his duty to report to you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Undoubtedly.
Senator SMITH.
Directly to you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Directly to the officer in charge of the ship at the time.
Senator SMITH.
Who was in charge of the ship on Sunday?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Each officer kept his own watch, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Were you in charge?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
During my watch.
Senator SMITH.
What hours were your watch?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Six o'clock until 10 o'clock.
Senator SMITH.
At night?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
And morning.
Senator SMITH.
So that from 6 o'clock in the evening on Sunday -
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Until 10 o'clock you were in charge?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And during that time two tests should have been made of the temperature of the
water for the purpose of ascertaining whether you were in the vicinity of
icebergs?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
For what purpose were the tests made?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
They were routine, sir. It is customary to make them.
Senator SMITH.
Do you mean that you take these tests when you are not in the vicinity of the
Grand Banks?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
From the time we leave port, any port in the world, until the time we get to
the next port in any part of the world, these tests are taken by the White Star
Line.
Senator SMITH.
Did you take these tests when you are not in the vicinity of the Grand Banks?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
We take them all the time; every two hours.
Senator SMITH.
Regardless of location or circumstances?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Or conditions?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir. I may except in narrow waters, such as rivers, or harbors. We do not
take them here.
Senator SMITH.
Is this test taken for the purpose of ascertaining the temperature of the
water?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Merely?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Merely.
Senator SMITH.
What does the temperature of the water indicate?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Nothing more than temperature of the air, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Does it not indicate the proximity of a colder area or an unusual condition?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir. It indicates cold water, sir, of course.
Senator SMITH.
Can you tell us how cold that water was?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I know what it was when I was in it.
Senator SMITH.
I should like to have your judgment about it.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I should say it was not much over freezing; how much, I could not say. It might
be 33 or 34.
Senator SMITH.
Not much over freezing?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What did the tests show?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I do not know, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You mean they did not report to you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It is entered in a book, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And the fact, is not communicated to you directly after each test?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not unless I ask for it.
Senator SMITH.
And you did not think it necessary to ask for it that night?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You knew you were in the vicinity of icebergs; did you not?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Water is absolutely no guide to icebergs, sir.
Senator SMITH.
I did not ask that. Did you know you were in the vicinity of icebergs?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you know of the wireless message from the Amerika to
the Titanic,
warning you that you were in the vicinity of icebergs?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
From the Amerika to the Titanic?
Senator SMITH.
Yes.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I can not say that I saw that individual message.
Senator SMITH.
Did you hear of it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Would you have heard of it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Most probably, sir.
Senator SMITH.
If that had been the case?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Most probably, sir.
Senator SMITH.
In fact, it would have been the duty of the person receiving this message to
communicate it to you, for you were in charge of the ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Under the commander's orders, sir.
Senator SMITH.
But you received no communication of that kind?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I do not know whether I received the Amerika's; I knew that a communication had
come from some ship; I can not say that it was the Amerika.
Senator SMITH.
Giving the latitude and the longitude of those icebergs?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No; no latitude.
Senator SMITH.
And that they were prevalent?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Speaking of the icebergs and naming their longitude.
Senator SMITH.
Just tell us, if anything, what did you hear about that, and from whom, if you
can.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
From what ship the message came I have forgotten; but the message contained
information that there was ice from 49 to 51.
Senator SMITH.
How do you know it came?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Because I saw it.
Senator SMITH.
That is since the collision?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not that I know of.
Senator SMITH.
Have you seen it since the collision?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not that I know of. Whether it was the same message or not. I have seen some.
Whether it is the same or not, I do not know. I have not seen the same to my
knowledge.
Senator SMITH.
From whom did you get that information?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
From the captain.
Senator SMITH.
That night?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
At what time did you get that information?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I think it was that afternoon.
Senator SMITH.
At what time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 1 o'clock.
Senator SMITH.
Where were you then?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
On the bridge.
Senator SMITH.
With the captain?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
Where was the ship with reference to her latitude?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not tell you without working it out, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What time was it in the day?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 1 o'clock.
Senator SMITH.
You were not then officer?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I was relieving for lunch.
Senator SMITH.
So that from the time this communication came to you you were not in charge of
the ship until 6 o'clock that night?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Exactly.
Senator SMITH.
Who succeeded you as officer of the ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The first officer, Mr. Murdoch.
Senator SMITH.
Did you communicate to him this information that the captain had given you on
the bridge?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I communicated that when I was relieving him at 1 o'clock.
Senator SMITH.
What did you tell him?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Exactly what was in the telegram.
Senator SMITH.
What did he say?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
"All right.".
Senator SMITH.
So that the officers of the ship - the officer in charge, Mr. Murdoch, was
fully advised by you that you were in proximity of these icebergs -
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I would hardly call that proximity.
Senator SMITH.
Pardon me and I will complete my question. And you were advised by the captain
that that was the case. Or, reversing it, you were advised by the captain, and
by word of mouth, and communicated that word to officer Murdoch, in charge of
the ship, to which he replied, "All right"?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you hold any further consultation about it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
With the first officer? No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How fast was the boat going at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 21 or 22.
Senator SMITH.
21 or 22 knots?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Was that her maximum speed?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I do not know, sir. I could not say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know whether she went any faster than that at any time on the trip?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
As far as we understood she would eventually go faster than that when the ship
was tuned up.
Senator SMITH.
But that was as fast as she went on the trial tests.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I do not know what her speed was on the trial trip.
Senator SMITH.
I thought you indicated it was about that. She was, however, running at her
maximum speed at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
We understood she was not at her maximum speed.
Senator SMITH.
That is, you understand that there was still reserve power there?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
That had not been exhausted?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
Did you have any instructions from anybody to exhaust that power?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
None.
Senator SMITH.
Did you have any ambition of your own to see it exhausted?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, I dare say.
Senator SMITH.
You wanted her to go as fast as she could?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
At some time or other; yes.
Senator SMITH.
Was that shared by your associates among the officers?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Oh, I could not say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did they talk about it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Naturally we talked; we wondered what her maximum speed would eventually be.
Senator SMITH.
You were anxious to see it tested?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not necessarily anxious.
Senator SMITH.
Interested, however?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Interested; yes.
Senator SMITH.
When you turned the ship over to the second officer, Mr. Murdoch -
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The first officer.
Senator SMITH.
When you turned the ship over to the first officer, Mr. Murdoch, where did you
go?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
What time are you speaking of now?
Senator SMITH.
I am speaking of about noon or 1 o'clock.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I went to my lunch.
Senator SMITH.
And what did you do after that?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I went below.
Senator SMITH.
Where?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Below, to my berth or whatever it happened to be. We call the quarters
generally below.
Senator SMITH.
Did you find anybody there when you got below?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes. The watch below I suppose was there.
Senator SMITH.
Did you have any talk with him about the word that the captain had given you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you have any talk with anybody about it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; not that I remember.
Senator SMITH.
How long did you remain in your room?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I dare say. I was in and out of the room two or three times during the
afternoon. Later on I laid down in the afternoon to sleep, and got up and wrote
some letters, or something like that.
Senator SMITH.
And took your place again in command of the ship, or rather, as officer of the
watch, at 6 o'clock?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
At 6 o'clock.
Senator SMITH.
At that time did you say anything to the other officers who were on duty at the
time about this information that the captain gave you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not that I remember, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Was the lookout increased that evening after you took the watch?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What was the complement of your ship that night, in officers?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
You mean on deck, sir?
Senator SMITH.
Yes, sir.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Myself and two juniors.
Senator SMITH.
Where were those two juniors stationed?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
They have various duties to perform, taking the various parts of the ship;
sometimes in the wheelhouse; at different periods one has to go the whole
rounds of the ship and see that everything is in order.
Senator SMITH.
When you came on watch at 6 o'clock, was the captain on the bridge, or did you
see him?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I didn't see him at 6 o'clock.
Senator SMITH.
When did you next see him?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About five minutes to 9 was the next time I saw him.
Senator SMITH.
About five minutes to 9?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
In his absence, who was on the bridge?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Myself.
Senator SMITH.
Did you relieve him?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The captain?
Senator SMITH.
Yes.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir. The first officer. I beg your pardon; I relieved the chief.
Senator SMITH.
You relieved the chief?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And went to the bridge?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I relieved the chief. The chief's watch was from 2 until 6. I relieved the
chief officer at 6 o'clock and carried on the watch until 10.
Senator SMITH.
Did you remain on the bridge?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
From 6 until 10 o'clock?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
During that time was each officer or man in his position in the forward part of
the vessel?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Who was there, and where were they stationed?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Two men in the crow's
nest, one man at the wheel, one man standing by.
Senator SMITH.
What was the weather that night?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Clear and calm.
Senator SMITH.
Were you at all apprehensive about your proximity to these icebergs?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And for that reason you did not think it necessary to increase the official
lookout?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And that was not done?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
From 6 until 10 o'clock was the captain on
the bridge at
all?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
When did he arrive?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Five minutes to 9.
Senator SMITH.
Five minutes to 9?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
But he was not there from 6 o'clock until five minutes of 9?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I did not see him, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You would have seen him if he had been there, would you not?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
If he had been actually on the bridge, yes, I should have seen him.
Senator SMITH.
You did not see him?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I did not see him.
Senator SMITH.
And you were there during all that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
During all that time.
Senator SMITH.
When he came to the bridge at five minutes of 9 what did he say to you or what
did you say to him? Who spoke first?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say, sir. Probably one of us said "Good evening."
Senator SMITH.
But you do not know who?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No.
Senator SMITH.
Was anything else said?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes. We spoke about the weather; calmness of the sea; the clearness; about the
time we should be getting up toward the vicinity of the ice and how we should
recognize it if we should see it - freshening up our minds as to the
indications that ice gives of its proximity. We just conferred together,
generally, for 25 minutes.
Senator SMITH.
For 20 or 25 minutes?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Was any reference made at that time to the wireless message from the Amerika?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Capt. Smith made a remark that if it was in a slight degree hazy there would be
no doubt we should have to go very slowly.
Senator SMITH.
Did you slow up?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That I do not know, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You would have known if it had been done, would you not, during your watch?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not necessarily so, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Who would give the command?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The commander would send orders down to the chief engineer to reduce her by so
many revolutions.
Senator SMITH.
Through a megaphone?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; by word of hand.
Senator SMITH.
By speaking tube?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No; by word of hand; notes.
Senator SMITH.
Did you see anything of that kind done?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; I did not see it on the bridge.
Senator SMITH.
And the captain was on the bridge?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How long did he remain on the bridge after coming there at 5 minutes of 9?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
He remained there until about 20 minutes past 9, or something like that.
Senator SMITH.
About 20 minutes past 9?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 25 minutes altogether.
Senator SMITH.
Then did he leave the bridge?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
He left the bridge.
Senator SMITH.
With any special injunction upon you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What did he say?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
"If in the slightest degree doubtful, let me know."
Senator SMITH.
What did you say to him?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
"All right, sir."
Senator SMITH.
You kept the ship on its course?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And at about the same speed?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir; as far as I know.
Senator SMITH.
When did you next see the captain?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
When I came out of the quarters, after the impact.
Senator SMITH.
You mean that he did not return to the bridge until your watch expired?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
About 10 o'clock?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You left?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And Murdoch took
command?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know where you were at the hour that you turned over the watch to Mr.
Murdoch?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not now, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you know at the time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Can you give us any idea?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
When I ended the watch we roughly judged that we should be getting toward the
vicinity of the ice, as reported by that Marconigram that I saw, somewhere
about 11 o'clock.
Senator SMITH.
That you would be in that latitude?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Longitude
Senator SMITH.
At 11 o'clock.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Somewhere about 11; yes.
Senator SMITH.
Did you talk with Mr. Murdoch about that phase of it when you left the watch?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About what?
Senator SMITH.
I say, did you talk with Mr. Murdoch about the iceberg situation when you left
the watch?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did he ask you anything about it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What was said between you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
We remarked on the weather, about its being calm, clear. We remarked the
distance we could see. We seemed to be able to see a long distance. Everything
was very clear. We could see the stars setting down to the horizon.
Senator SMITH.
It was cold, was it not?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Sharp?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How cold was it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Thirty-one, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Above zero?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Thirty-one degrees above zero, yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Is that unusually cold for that longitude?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
At that time of the year?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you see Mr. Murdoch after that?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir; I saw him when I came out of the quarters after the impact.
Senator SMITH.
Where was he?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
On the bridge.
Senator SMITH.
With the captain?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
One on one side, and one on the other side of the bridge; one on each side.
Senator SMITH.
Did you speak to him after that?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
I mean after he took the watch?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You never spoke to him again?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No; sir.
Senator SMITH.
You were not together when finally parted from the ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You saw him on the bridge at the time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Immediately after the impact; yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did he remain there until the end?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
He was getting the boats out on the starboard side later on.
Senator SMITH.
Later?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you see him at that work?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; I was on the port side.
Senator SMITH.
How do you know that he did it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I saw him at the last boat.
Senator SMITH.
Just what time he left the bridge, I don't suppose you know?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Where did you last see the captain?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
On the boat
deck, sir.
Senator SMITH.
On the boat deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How long before the vessel sank?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say, sir; I saw him about the boat deck two or three times. I had
no occasion to go to him.
Senator SMITH.
Was the vessel broken in two in any manner, or intact?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Absolutely intact.
Senator SMITH.
On the decks?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Intact, sir.
Senator SMITH.
When you came out of your room after the impact, did you see any ice on the
decks?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you see or hear any exclamations of pain?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know whether anyone was injured?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
By ice on deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Tell us, as nearly as you can, just where you saw the captain last, with
reference to the sinking of this ship.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I think the bridge was the last place I saw him, sir; I am not sure. I think he
was crossing the bridge.
Senator SMITH.
What do you mean by that?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Walking across.
Senator SMITH.
From one side to the other?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; just coming across. I merely recognized a glimpse. I have a slight
recollection of having seen him whilst I was walking. It is my recollection
that I saw him crossing the bridge. I think that was the last.
Senator SMITH.
How large was this bridge? How large was it on the Titanic?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It extends the width of the ship, sir.
Senator SMITH.
It extend the width of the ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir; and 18 inches over each side.
Senator SMITH.
And how far forward?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
In amidships, about 20 feet; in the wings, about 10 feet.
Senator SMITH.
When you saw him was he giving any orders?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I was not near enough to know, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How near were you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 50 feet away.
Senator SMITH.
What did he seem to be doing - pacing?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; not pacing. Just walking straight across, as if he had some object
that he was walking toward.
Senator SMITH.
He was walking from one side to the other?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir; from starboard to port.
Senator SMITH.
Did that give him a full sweep of view of the situation?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
If he had been giving orders would you have heard them?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And you did not hear any such thing at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
At that time; no, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What were the last orders you heard him give?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
When I asked him, "Shall I put the women and children in the boats?"
he replied, "Yes; and lower away." Those were the last orders he
gave.
Senator SMITH.
Where was he at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About abreast the No.
6 boat.
Senator SMITH.
How long was that before the ship sunk?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Approximately somewhere about a quarter to 1, say. I don't know what time it
was, sir. It would be only a guess.
Senator SMITH.
It was after this impact?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
After the collision?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And about how long after? What time did the collision occur?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I do not know. I understand - I only gather it - that it occurred shortly
before 12 o'clock.
Senator SMITH.
When you heard it, did you look at your watch or make a note of it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How long was the vessel afloat after this collision?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That I do not know either, only from what I was told.
Senator SMITH.
What were you told?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I was told she sunk at 2:20.
Senator SMITH.
Who told you that?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
We came to the conclusion amongst the officers, by various indications.
Senator SMITH.
Did any officer that you communicated with know the exact moment of this impact
or collision?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That I could not say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Of course you had a watch with you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you have a watch in your room?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
In my room; yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you keep it or is it gone?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Oh, it is gone, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You did not know whether it was running or stopped? You did not look at it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I did not look at it, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You asked the captain on the boat deck whether the lifeboats should take the
women and children first, if I understand you correctly?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not quite, sir; I asked him: "Shall I put the women and children in the
boats?" The captain replied, "Yes, and lower away."
Senator SMITH.
What did you then do?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I carried out his orders.
Senator SMITH.
Except as to this one boat that
could not be lowered?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I am speaking of the port side of the ship. I was running the port side only.
Senator SMITH.
Were all the boats lowered on the port side?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
They were all lowered with the exception of one, the last boat, which was
stowed on top of the officers' quarters. We had not time to launch it nor yet
to open it.
Senator SMITH.
I did not get the first word, Was it injured?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; I said it was stowed on top of the officers' quarters. And when all
the other boats were carried away, I called for the men to go up there, told
them to cut her adrift and throw her down.
Senator SMITH.
How did it happen to be stowed up there? Was that an unusual place for it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Well, what happened to that boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It floated off the ship, sir.
Senator SMITH.
It floated off?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
Without anyone in it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I understand the men standing on top, who assisted to launch it down, jumped
onto it as it was on the deck and floated off with it.
Senator SMITH.
What type of boat was it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Collapsible.
Senator SMITH.
Did you see it afterwards?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Eventually. It was the boat that I got on.
Senator SMITH.
Eventually that was the boat that you got on?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir; bottom up.
Senator SMITH.
Did you see the captain after that final order with reference to the women and
children?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Where?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Walking across the bridge, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you have any further communication with him?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; none.
Senator SMITH.
So far as you know, was that the last place that he was seen?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You don't know what occurred to the captain after that?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
This lifeboat which was taken from the top of the officers' quarters, and that
you finally reached, contained how many people?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
When it floated off the ship?
Senator SMITH.
Yes.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say how many.
Senator SMITH.
How many after you had gotten into it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
We were thrown off a couple of times. It was cleared; it was a flat collapsible
boat. When I came to it, it was bottom up, and there was no one on it.
Senator SMITH.
No one on it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
And it was on the other side of the ship.
Senator SMITH.
What did you do when you came to it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I hung on to it.
Senator SMITH.
You floated with it merely?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Was that all the service it ever rendered? Was that the only service this
lifeboat performed'?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir. Eventually about 30 of us got in it
Senator SMITH.
Tell us just how it occurred.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
From the time the ship went down you mean?
Senator SMITH.
No; from the time you found this overturned lifeboat.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir. Immediately after finding that overturned lifeboat, and when I came
up alongside of it, there were quite a lot of us in the water around it
preparatory to getting up on it.
Senator SMITH.
With life preservers?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir. Then the forward funnel fell down
Senator SMITH.
Were there any persons there without life preservers?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir. Not that I know of. The forward funnel falling down, it fell alongside
of the lifeboat, about 4 inches clear of it.
Senator SMITH.
What was this that fell?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The forward funnel.
Senator SMITH.
Did it strike the boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It missed the boat.
Senator SMITH.
Then what?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It fell on all the people there were alongside of the boat, if there were any
there.
Senator SMITH.
Injure any of them seriously?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did it kill anybody?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Was this vessel sinking pretty rapidly at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Pretty quickly, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know any of the men who were in the water as you were and who boarded
this lifeboat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Give their names.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Mr. Thayer, a
first-class passenger; the second Marconi operator - I can tell you his name in
a minute - Bride.
Senator SMITH.
Was that the boat that Col. Gracie --
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Oh, yes; and Col. Gracie.
Senator SMITH.
Col. Gracie of the United States Army?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I think I have his card.
Senator SMITH.
It was Col.
Gracie, anyway?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Col. Gracie was on the upturned boat with
me; yes.
Senator SMITH.
Was he on the upturned boat before you got it righted around?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
We never righted it.
Senator SMITH.
You never righted it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir, we could not.
Senator SMITH.
Who else was there?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I think all the rest were firemen taken out of the water, sir. Those are the
only passengers that I know of.
Senator SMITH.
No other passengers?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
There were two or three that died. I think there were three or four who died
during the night.
Senator SMITH.
Aboard this boat with you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir; I think the senior Marconi operator was
on the boat and died. The Marconi junior operator told
me that the senior was on this boat and died.
Senator SMITH.
From the cold?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Presumably.
Senator SMITH.
Not from the blow of this -
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No; not that I know of.
Senator SMITH.
How many persons altogether?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I should roughly estimate about 30. She was packed standing from stem to stern
at daylight.
Senator SMITH.
Was there any effort made by others to board her?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
We took all on board that we could.
Senator SMITH.
I understand, but I wanted to know whether there was any effort made by others
to get aboard?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not that I saw.
Senator SMITH.
There must have been a great number of people in the water?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
But not near us. They were some distance away from us.
Senator SMITH.
How far?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It seemed about a half a mile.
Senator SMITH.
Was not this the only raft or craft in sight?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It was dark, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Yes. But this was the only thing there was to get on at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
With the exception of the wreckage.
Senator SMITH.
With the exception of what floated off the ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
In the form of wreckage?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you see Col. Gracie?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I don't know whether I saw him, sir. I met him on the Carpathia afterwards,
of course.
Senator SMITH.
Do you remember seeing him in the water?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Who took command of that overturned lifeboat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I did, as far as command was necessary.
Senator SMITH.
Did your judgment rule the conduct of those on it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir; that is my reason for saying that I believe it was mostly the crew of
the ship, because of the implicit obedience.
Senator SMITH.
When you left the ship, did you see any women or children on board?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
None whatever.
Senator SMITH.
Could you give us any estimate whatever as to the number of first and second
class passengers that were on board when the ship went down?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, Sir.
Senator SMITH.
Were there any on the so-called boat deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Were there quite a number, in your opinion?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
A number of people - what they were, first, second, or third, crew or firemen,
I could not say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
But there were many people still on the ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And, so far as you could observe, could you tell whether they were equipped
with life preservers?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
As far as I could see, throughout the whole of the passengers, or the whole of
the crew, everyone was equipped with a life preserver, for I looked for it
especially.
Senator SMITH.
Were the passengers on those decks instructed at any time to go to one side or
the other of the ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
What do you know about that?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
When the ship was taking a heavy list - not a heavy list - but she was taking a
list over to port, the order was called, I think, by the chief officer.
"Everyone on the starboard side to straighten her up," which I
repeated.
Senator SMITH.
How long before you left the ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
About how long?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Half an hour or three quarters of an hour.
Senator SMITH.
Before you left?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
How were these passengers selected in going to the lifeboats?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
By their sex.
Senator SMITH.
Whenever you saw a woman?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Precisely.
Senator SMITH.
She was invited to go into one of these boats?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Excepting the stewardesses. We turned several of those away.
Senator SMITH.
Except the employees?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Except the stewardesses; yes.
Senator SMITH.
And did you see any attempt made to get women to enter the lifeboats who
refused to go?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How many?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I couldn't say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Several?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
A few.
Senator SMITH.
What reason was given why they did not?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I had not time; I didn't notice. Merely they would not come.
Senator SMITH.
Did they ask that their families be taken?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes; one or two.
Senator SMITH.
And were families taken, to your knowledge?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not to my knowledge.
Senator SMITH.
Were the boat that was on top of the officers quarters that overturned, and the
boat that was stuck in the tackle both made use of in any way, or but one?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
But one.
Senator SMITH.
So that altogether there were how many lifeboats actually used?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Nineteen.
Senator SMITH.
How many actually picked up by the Carpathia?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
All accounted for.
Senator SMITH.
One, however, was badly injured, and another lifeboat took the passengers from
it, did they not?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That was the upturned one that I was on.
Senator SMITH.
That was the upturned one that you were on?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And they took you into another lifeboat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
All of those who were with you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Was the lifeboat full at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I counted 65 heads, not including myself or any that were in the bottom of the
boat. I roughly estimated about 75 in the boat.
Senator SMITH.
Was the boat safe with that number of people in it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Safe in smooth water only.
Senator SMITH.
How many of those lifeboats did you help load?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
All except one or two on the port side.
Senator SMITH.
Who determined the number of people who should go into the lifeboats?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I did.
Senator SMITH.
How did you reach a conclusion as to the number that should be permitted to go
in?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
My own judgment about the strength of the tackle.
Senator SMITH.
How many did you put in each boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
In the first boat I put about 20 or 25. Twenty, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How many men?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No men.
Senator SMITH.
How many seamen?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Two.
Senator SMITH.
In the first boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Was that sufficient to take care of the boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
We wanted them up on deck.
Senator SMITH.
For what purpose?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Lowering away the boats.
Senator SMITH.
Do you mean that there would not have been sufficient on deck and to man the
lifeboats at the same time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not to distribute more than two to a boat, sir. It would not be safe.
Senator SMITH.
That is not the usual requirement, is it - two to a boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Quite sufficient under the conditions.
Senator SMITH.
As a matter of fact, women were obliged to row those boats for hours?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, a great many did, I know.
Senator SMITH.
That indicated that they were not fully equipped?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not necessarily, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How many oars in a boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I think it is 16, the full, equipment.
Senator SMITH.
How many persons can use an oar at one time? I do not mean how many can, but I
mean how many ordinarily would?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Do you mean during boat practice, for instance?
Senator SMITH.
I should like to know how many during practice and I should like to know how
many in actual danger such as this.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
We would man about five oars a side. In the boat I was in we could pull only
three oars.
Senator SMITH.
You couldn't pull at all, could you, in your boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
We managed to keep our head to the sea with three oars.
Senator SMITH.
You mean you got hold of three oars after this boat was turned over?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir. The one that picked us up, afterwards.
Senator SMITH.
You did not have any means of propelling your craft until you were taken from
this upturned boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
A couple of bits of wood we picked up, only.
Senator SMITH.
You say five men on a side?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
As far as I remember, five a side.
Senator SMITH.
Does that mean that a single individual will be at an oar?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not necessarily. You can do what we call double or treble bank.
Senator SMITH.
Tell me what that is.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Two or three pulling abreast of one another, one holding an oar here, another
there, and another one there.
Senator SMITH.
Abreast?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Abreast, another couple in front turned around facing and pushing the oar.
Senator SMITH.
Pushing?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Pushing, standing up in the boat.
Senator SMITH.
So that it is entirely possible and often the case that men face one another in
working these oars?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Precisely.
Senator SMITH.
And therefore, in the case of a boat with its full complement of men, one man
might be where he could see the ship, pulling with his back to the sea and
another with his back to the ship and his face to the sea?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Precisely.
Senator SMITH.
You say there were about 25 in this first lifeboat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About that.
Senator SMITH.
And that it was loaded under your orders?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Under my orders.
Senator SMITH.
What happened to that lifeboat, the first one loaded?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It was loaded and sent away from the ship.
Senator SMITH.
Did it not return to the ship because it was only half loaded?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not to my knowledge, sir.
Senator SMITH.
As a matter of fact it was not much more than half loaded, was it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
You mean its floating capacity?
Senator SMITH.
Yes.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Floating capacity; no.
Senator SMITH.
How did it happen you did not put more people into that boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Because I did not consider it safe.
Senator SMITH.
In a great emergency like that, where there were limited facilities, could you
not have afforded to try to put more people into that boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I did not know it was urgent then. I had no idea it was urgent.
Senator SMITH.
You did not know it was urgent.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Nothing like it.
Senator SMITH.
Supposing you had known it was urgent, what would you have done?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I would have acted to the best of my judgment then.
Senator SMITH.
Tell me what you would have thought wise.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I would have taken more risks. I should not have considered it wise to put more
in, but I might have taken risks.
Senator SMITH.
As a matter of fact are not these lifeboats so constructed as to accommodate 40
people?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Sixty-five in the water, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Sixty-five in the water, and about 40 as they are being put into the water?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; it all depends on your gears, sir. If it were an old ship, you would
barely dare to put 25 in.
Senator SMITH.
But this was a new one?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
And therefore I took chances with her afterwards.
Senator SMITH.
You put 25 in?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
In the first.
Senator SMITH.
And two men?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
And two men.
Senator SMITH.
How were those two men selected; arbitrarily by you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir. They were selected by me; yes.
Senator SMITH.
Who were they?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How did you happen to choose those particular men?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Because they were standing near.
Senator SMITH.
Did they want to go?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I did not ask them.
Senator SMITH.
You did not call for volunteers?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
They went by my orders.
Senator SMITH.
You directed that it should be done?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
And they got in?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
They did.
Senator SMITH.
And 23 people besides?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I should say about 24; something like that.
Senator SMITH.
Did you see any lifeboat return to the ship and take on additional passengers?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How many did the second boat contain?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 30.
Senator SMITH.
How many men?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Two.
Senator SMITH.
How many women and children?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 30.
Senator SMITH.
Women or women and children?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I should say, roughly 30, and probably grown ups.
Senator SMITH.
What side were you loading on?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
On the port side of the ship, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Were those 30 lowered?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes; lowered and sent away.
Senator SMITH.
From what deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
From the boat deck.
Senator SMITH.
You do not know, I suppose, whether they were first or second cabin passengers?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No.
Senator SMITH.
There were two men?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Two men, as far as I remember, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you see that boat again alongside or any place else?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
By the Titanic,
sir?
Senator SMITH.
Yes.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No; not to my knowledge.
Senator SMITH.
How many did the third boat contain?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
By the time I came to the third boat I was aware that it was getting serious,
and then I started to take chances.
Senator SMITH.
How long did it take to lower a boat - fill it and lower it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Just filling it and lowering it, and not clearing away?
Senator SMITH.
Filling and lowering and clearing?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
We clear it away first then heave it out over the side, then lower it down
level with the rail, and then commence to fill it with people. Previous to that
we have to take the covers all off, haul out all the falls and coil them down
clear.
Senator SMITH.
How long do you think it took you to uncover and lower that lifeboat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It is difficult to say, sir; 15 or 20 minutes.
Senator SMITH.
Were there any lifeboats being lowered from the other side at the same time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I do not know, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How did it happen that you had charge of that feature?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Because I took charge.
Senator SMITH.
You took charge of it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And where was Mr.
Murdoch at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
As far as I know, he had charge of the starboard side.
Senator SMITH.
How many passengers did the third boat contain?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I can only guess. I filled her up as full as I could, and lowered her as full
as I dared.
Senator SMITH.
How many seamen?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Two.
Senator SMITH.
You followed that rule?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I followed that rule throughout.
Senator SMITH.
You filled it full?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
As full as I possibly dared.
Senator SMITH.
Did you have any difficulty in doing it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
In what manner?
Senator SMITH.
Were the people ready to go?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Perfectly quiet and ready.
Senator SMITH.
Any jostling, pushing, or crowding?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
None whatever.
Senator SMITH.
The men all refrained from asserting their strength and crowding back the women
and children?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
They could not have stood quieter if they had been in church.
Senator SMITH.
If you had filled that third boat full, how many people would you have had in
it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
What do you mean by full?
Senator SMITH.
To its full capacity.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Sixty-five.
Senator SMITH.
Beg pardon?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Sixty-five, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Do you think you had that many in it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Certainly not, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How many did you have?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Thirty-five, I should say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Thirty-five?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About.
Senator SMITH.
And two men?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
Then the fourth boat. Was there any fourth boat on that side?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
There were eight boats to a side
Senator SMITH.
As to the fourth boat, you followed the same course?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The same order; the same conditions.
Senator SMITH.
You put two men in each?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I think I was getting short of men, if I remember rightly. I started to putting
one seaman and a steward in.
Senator SMITH.
One seaman and a steward?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes. That was the boat I
had to put a man passenger in. I could only find one seaman. I had started to
lower the boat. I had put two seamen in and then I wanted two for lowering. It
is absolutely necessary to have a seaman on each fall. No one else can lower a
boat. I was calling for seamen, and one of the seamen jumped out of the boat
and started to lowering away. The boat was half way down when the women called
out and said that there was only one man in the boat. I had only two seamen and
could not part with them, and was in rather a fix to know what to do, when a
passenger called out and said, "If you like, I will go."
Senator SMITH.
Did you know him?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I did not.
Senator SMITH.
Was he an officer of the ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; a first class passenger.
Senator SMITH.
You don't know who he was?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I have found out who he was since.
Senator SMITH.
Who was he?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Maj. Peuchen.
Senator SMITH.
Of Toronto?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Of Toronto. That is the name, yes.
Senator SMITH.
Is he an officer of the British Army?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I don't know what he is. He is not a Britisher, anyway.
Senator SMITH.
Did he volunteer?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What did he say?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
He merely said, "I will go if you like." I said "Are you a
seaman," and he said "I am a yachtsman." I said "If you are
sailor enough to get out on that fall" - that is a difficult thing to get
to, over the ship's side, 8 feet away, and means a long swing on a dark night -
"if you are sailor enough to get out there you can go down." And he
proved he was, by going down. And he afterwards proved himself a brave man,
too.
Senator SMITH.
In what respect?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
From the accounts I heard of him after we were rescued.
Senator SMITH.
You mean as to his conduct?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
As to his conduct.
Senator SMITH.
In the lifeboat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
In the lifeboat.
Senator SMITH.
How old a man was he, about?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Forty-five or fifty.
Senator SMITH.
Did he have any family with him?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I couldn't say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Had you ever seen him before?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Never.
Senator SMITH.
Have you seen him since?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I saw him on the Carpathia.
I made it my business to find him.
Senator SMITH.
How many did you say you had in this boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Thirty-five; about the same, as far as I remember.
Senator SMITH.
That is the fourth one. How about the fifth?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
As far as I know, the conditions were the same.
Senator SMITH.
Did you have to call somebody from among the passengers?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; I can not remember anything in particular about that boat.
Senator SMITH.
About the fifth?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; no particular incident, strikes me. I was getting along then just as
fast as ever I could. I was too quick to bother about things.
Senator SMITH.
How many women were you caring for? How many did you have aboard the ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know whether they were all cared for?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
All that would go?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
In the case of the last boat I got out, I had the utmost difficulty in finding
women. It was the very last boat of all, after all the other boats were put out
and we came forward to put out the collapsible boats. In the meantime the
forward emergency
boat had been put out by one of the other officers. So we rounded up
the tackles and got the collapsible boat to put that over. Then I called for
women and could not get hold of any. Somebody said, "There are no
women." With this, several men -
Senator SMITH.
Who said that?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I do not know, sir.
Senator SMITH.
On what deck was that?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
On the boat
deck.
Senator SMITH.
Were all the women supposed to be on the boat deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir; they were supposed to be.
Senator SMITH.
Why?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Because the boats were there. I might say that previous to putting this Berthon
boat out we had lowered a boat from A deck one deck
down below. That was through my fault. It was the first boat I had lowered. I
was intending to put the passengers in from A deck. On lowering it down I found
the windows were closed. So I sent some one down to open the windows and
carried on with the other boats, but decided it was not worth while lowering
them down, that I could manage just as well from the boat deck. When I came
forward from the other boats I loaded that boat from A deck by getting the
women out through the windows. My idea in filling the boats there was because
there was a wire hawser running along the side of the ship for coaling
purposes, and it was handy to tie the boat in to, to hold it so that nobody
could drop between the side of the boat and the ship.
Senator SMITH.
Which one was that?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That is No.
4; No. 4 boat.
Senator SMITH.
That was filled from there?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That was filled from there, loaded, and sent away. Then we went to this Berthon
boat.
Senator SMITH.
In the fifth boat; how many seamen were there?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
As far as I remember, two seamen.
Senator SMITH.
Two?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How many people did you put into it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I might have put a good deal more; I filled her up as much as I could. When I
got down to the fifth boat, that was aft.
Senator SMITH.
You were still using your best judgment?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I was not using very much judgment then; I was filling them up.
Senator SMITH.
At that time you felt -
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I knew it was a question of the utmost speed, to get the boats away.
Senator SMITH.
To get them away?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
In that situation you were quite sure that they were filled to their capacity?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir. I don't say to their floating capacity, I don't say 65.
Senator SMITH.
But about the same number of persons were in each boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I should say 35 or 40.
Senator SMITH.
Was the sixth one loaded in the same manner?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I think the sixth one put down was this one from A deck that I spoke of - no,
the fifth one would be from A deck. I think the chief officer,
under his direct supervision, lowered a boat from the after-end. Of course I
can not be absolutely certain. But when I came forward, as I say, I put the one
down from A deck which I told you about. Then we went to the Berthon boat,
which is the last boat on the port side, the collapsible boat.
Senator SMITH.
The fifth boat was lowered in the same manner?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir. I think it was the fifth from the A deck.
Senator SMITH.
With two seamen?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
And the balance women.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Women and children.
Senator SMITH.
Women and children? Up to this time, so far as you recollect, no men had been
permitted to get into these boats?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
None had attempted to do so; no, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How about the sixth boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That is the collapsible, the surfboat?
Senator SMITH.
That is the collapsible. Did you take the same course with that?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That is a much smaller boat.
Senator SMITH.
How many seamen did you put in that?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I think there was one seaman and one steward. I could not say.
Senator SMITH.
Do you recollect whether there was a light on that boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; I was not looking for lights.
Senator SMITH.
Do you recollect whether Mrs. Douglass, of
Minneapolis, was in that boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I do not know her at all, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Have you had any talk with her about it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Never have spoken to her or seen her, to my knowledge.
Senator SMITH.
How many people were put into this sixth boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Fifteen or perhaps 20. Between 15 and 20.
Senator SMITH.
And two seamen?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I do not know what seamen -
Senator SMITH.
Or one?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I think one seaman probably, if I had one seaman there. Perhaps it was two
stewards. I do not know, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Would the two stewards answer the same purpose?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
They would have to.
Senator SMITH.
Did you select the men to take that boat the same as you had before?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
You mean whether I ordered them in?
Senator SMITH.
Yes.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I ordered them in.
Senator SMITH.
But you can not recall who they were?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I was just thinking. No, not with any degree of certainty.
Senator SMITH.
Were any of them officers?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you have any difficulty in filling it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
With women; yes, sir; great difficulty.
Senator SMITH.
But you filled it to its capacity?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I filled it with about 15 or 20 eventually mustered up. It took longer to fill
that boat than it did any other boat, notwithstanding that the others had more
in them. On two occasions the men thought there were no more women and
commenced to get in and then found one or two more and then got out again.
Senator SMITH.
How long a time do you think you had been in loading these six boats?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I don't know, sir.
Senator SMITH.
If it took 15 to 20 minutes to a boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About an hour and a half.
Senator SMITH.
About an hour and a half?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That is about right.
Senator SMITH.
The vessel must have been going down?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I lowered the last boat 10 feet and it was in the water.
Senator SMITH.
You lowered it 10 feet and it was in the water?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
When you began lowering, the boat was about 60 feet up from the water?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Seventy feet.
Senator SMITH.
From the water?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
I mean the deck.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
From the deck; exactly, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What did you do with the seventh boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That was the finish.
Senator SMITH.
What was that?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The seventh boat was
the one on top of the quarters.
Senator SMITH.
That was the last boat that was lowered by your orders?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It was the last. It was not lowered.
Senator SMITH.
Did you see Mr.
Ismay at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Mr. Ismay, as far as I know, from what I have gathered afterwards, was on the
starboard side of the deck wholly, helping out there.
Senator SMITH.
He did not enter the boat from the port side?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How many people do you think were in the seventh boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
There were not any in it.
Senator SMITH.
I mean the sixth boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The last collapsible boat?
Senator SMITH.
Yes.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I say about 15.
Senator SMITH.
Wouldn't it hold any more than that?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Perhaps 20. They won't hold many. They are canvas. They will not stand many.
Senator SMITH.
They won't stand very much?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Oh, no, sir.
Senator SMITH.
So that they really do not answer the purpose of a lifeboat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
They are not as good as a lifeboat; no, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Have neither the capacity nor the resistance?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir. They are merely stowed in a smaller place. Perhaps you can stow at
least three of those where you can stow one lifeboat. You can stow them one on
top of the other.
Senator SMITH.
So far as your knowledge goes, the lifeboats on
the port side consisted of how many lifeboats and how many of those canvas
boats?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Seven lifeboats,
one emergency boat,
which is on the same principle as the lifeboat, practically, only it is a
smaller and handier boat, and two collapsible boats.
Senator SMITH.
The one that was in the tackle was the last boat that was attempted to be
lowered on the port side?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The collapsible boat?
Senator SMITH.
Yes.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How many of the collapsible boats were there altogether on the ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Four.
Senator SMITH.
And 16 of another type?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You must have been painfully aware of the fact that there were not enough boats
there to care for that large passenger list, were you not?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know who had charge on the starboard side of the lowering and filling of
the boats?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir. Merely what I am told.
Senator SMITH.
What have you been told about it. May be we can get something from that.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
As far as I know, and I think it is correct, Mr. Murdoch. Mr.
Murdoch was on the starboard side. I was on the port side, and Mr. Murdoch was
on the starboard side, and the chief officer was superintending generally, and
lowered one or two boats himself.
Senator SMITH.
From whom did you get information?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Of course, I saw Mr. Murdoch there when finally I had finished on the port
side.
Senator SMITH.
You went to the starboard side?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
On top; yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
For the purpose of lowering this -
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I went over to see if I could assist.
Senator SMITH.
And you saw him there?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I saw him there.
Senator SMITH.
From anything you have been told, did he pursue the same course on the
starboard side in reference to the filling of the lifeboats, and the complement
of seamen as you did?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That I could not say.
Senator SMITH.
Was there any rule as to that?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
As to the number of seamen?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; except for boat drill of course, that was not boat drill.
Senator SMITH.
What was the number of the ship's crew?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Of seamen?
Senator SMITH.
Yes.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
71 seamen.
Senator SMITH.
What constituted the crew besides seamen?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Firemen and stewards.
Senator SMITH.
And their force?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Oh, yes. They mustered up something like 800, perhaps a little under, perhaps a
little over. Somewhere around 800. About 800, roughly speaking, firemen and
stewards. A little less than 800. The crew altogether is about 850 or 860; that
is, including seamen, firemen, and stewards.
Senator SMITH.
And you had your full complement on this voyage?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
As far as I know.
Senator SMITH.
How do you account for your inability to get hold of more than nine seamen to
man those lifeboats on the port side?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Earlier, and before I realized that there was any danger, I told off the
boatswain to take some men - I didn't say how many, leaving the man to use his
own judgment, to go down below and open the gangway doors in order that some
boats could come alongside and be filled to their utmost capacity. He complied
with the order, and, so far as I know, went down below, and I did not see him
afterwards. That took away a number of men, and we detailed two men for each
boat and two men for lowering down.
Senator SMITH.
But you did not have two men for each boat, officer. You had only -
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
So far as they will go.
Senator SMITH.
You only had nine seamen to seven boats?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Well, I have only been telling you approximately. As far as ever I could I put
two seamen in a boat. If I didn't have a seaman there I had to put a steward
there.
Senator SMITH.
I understand that.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Sometimes there would be three seamen in a boat. As soon as the boats were
lowered to the level of the rail, I would detail one man to jump in and ship
the rudder, one man to cast adrift the oars, and one man would see that the
plugs were in, and it would take three men.
Senator SMITH.
You said you chose these men and when the lifeboat is swung out from the ship
and lowered it is supposed that she has her full complement of officers and
seamen, is it not?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
She is swung out and lowered to the level of the rail, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Level with the rail but not against the rail?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No.
Senator SMITH.
When you are lowering the lifeboat you are supposed to have filled it to its
safe capacity?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Lowering it afterwards from the rail down. You see we have to swing it out
first of all and lower it until it is level with the rail, so that the people
can have one foot on deck and the other foot to step into the boat. They must
be level.
Senator SMITH.
When you called Maj.
Peuchen, you had no seamen?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not that I could see, and I couldn't waste time looking for them.
Senator SMITH.
When you put the two officers, if I understand you correctly-
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No officers.
Senator SMITH.
Stewards?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Stewards.
Senator SMITH.
When you put the two stewards into the lifeboat, you had no seamen?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
If I put two stewards in. As I say, I might have put two stewards in if there
were no seamen.
Senator SMITH.
How many of the ship's crew survived?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Seamen?
Senator SMITH.
Seamen and other attaches or employees?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Forty-three seamen, 96 stewards and stewardesses, and 71 firemen.
Senator SMITH.
Seventy-one firemen?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
And how many seamen?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Forty-three.
Senator SMITH.
So that you lost 28 seamen?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
And how many of the crew have been saved altogether? How many survived,
altogether?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Two hundred and ten.
Senator SMITH.
If the same course was followed on the starboard side with the lifeboats that
you took on the port side, how were these men saved?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I don't know, sir. I know that a great number were taken out of the water. I
made it my special business to inquire, and as far as I can gather, for every
six people picked out of the water five of them would be firemen or stewards.
On our boat, as I have said before, there was Col. Gracie and
young Thayer.
I think those were the only two passengers.
Senator SMITH.
There were no women on the boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No. I am speaking of the overturned boat.
Senator SMITH.
I refer to that. There were no women on your boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; these were all taken out of the water and they were firemen and others
of the crew.
Senator SMITH.
How many were there on that boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Roughly, about 30. I take that from my own estimate and from the estimate of
some one who was looking down from the bridge of the Carpathia.
Senator SMITH.
Assuming there were 24 of those among the crew?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
That would still leave 190 to get over on these other lifeboats that were
filled with women and children?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Some of the boats went back and picked people out of the wreckage after the
ship had gone down, mostly, firemen and stewards.
Senator SMITH.
What boats?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Some of the lifeboats.
Senator SMITH.
Some of the lifeboats went back?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That is what I understand; course, I don't know.
Senator SMITH.
How far would they have gone?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I don't know, sir. I am only giving hearsay now.
Senator SMITH.
They could not have gone very far. You will recall that the captain of
the Carpathia says that the Carpathia did not
linger about the scene of the collision but half an hour?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
They could not have gone very far.
Senator SMITH.
These boats would not have gone very far in going back to the scone of the
wreck? You do not know of your own knowledge that any of those lifeboats were
taken back to the scene of the wreck by anybody?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
As a matter of fact, after rowing these boats as far as they were obliged to
row them, in some instances several hours, would they have had little strength
to have rowed back, would they not, assuming that the men did the work?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I know that they went back, because the men have told me that they were picked
up out of the wreckage by the lifeboats that went back.
Senator SMITH.
Of your own knowledge you don't know anything about these lifeboats returning?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
From what you have said, you discriminated entirely in the interest of the
passengers - first the women and children - in filling those lifeboats?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Why did you do that? Because of the captain's orders,
or because of the rule of the sea?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The rule of human nature.
Senator SMITH.
The rule of human nature? And there was no studied purpose, as far as you know,
to save the crew?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Absolutely not.
Senator SMITH.
The fact that you only put nine seamen into the boats that you lowered, which
were half the entire complement-
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
One-third?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About a third; perhaps a little more than a third; not half.
Senator SMITH.
A little more than half when you consider that you did not fill the boat that
was on the officers quarters that was thrown without passengers into the sea?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And one other boat was so entangled in the gearing that it was useless?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
That left 18?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
Did I understand you to say that 1 of the 18 was injured?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
(interrupting). Yes, you are right; I beg your pardon.
Senator SMITH.
So that this really was a little more than half?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I had not thought that I put out half because I am under the impression that
the chief
officer put out a couple of the after ones on my deck, as well as
supervising. He evidently found that he had the time, and put out a couple of
these boats, and he also lowered the emergency boat;
so I, think it is 3 he put out, out of 10 on that side. That left me 7. I think
that is about what I put out; 7.
Senator SMITH.
Did I ask you how many women and children there were aboard ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
You did, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you reply?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I do not know.
Senator SMITH.
Is there any record available here of the exact number of passengers - men,
women, and children? Mr. Franklin, have you that?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
That will be furnished.
Senator SMITH.
But you are quite clear that there were no women that you could put into the
last boat to fill it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not within my sight and hearing.
Senator SMITH.
You were on the boat
deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I was standing in the boat. Oh, I do know the steward that went in the boat
now.
Senator SMITH.
Tell me who he was.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I do not know that I could give his name. If he is here now, I could recognize
him if I saw him.
Senator SMITH.
That was in the fourth boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No; the last boat to
be lowered in the tackles; the very last boat to be lowered in the tackles.
Senator SMITH.
The sixth boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir. I could not tell you his name now, but I know there was a steward
there.
Senator SMITH.
Did he survive?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
Did you notice any Americans?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
A plenty.
Senator SMITH.
Standing near you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Any amount.
Senator SMITH.
When you were lowering the women?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Any amount. They gave me every assistance they could, regardless of
nationality.
Senator SMITH.
Did you hear any of their names?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
What do you mean? At that time, sir?
Senator SMITH.
Yes.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did any of them attempt to give you their names?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Do you recall, from anything that you heard on shipboard, the names of any that
you may have seen?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No; we are not brought in contact with the passengers at all beyond going our
rounds.
Senator SMITH.
Is it the custom, or was it the custom of your line to print a list of the
prominent passengers?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Or the passengers in a little leaflet?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
The first or second day out?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Was this done?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes; it is done as far as possible before we leave home.
Senator SMITH.
But it is not put out until after the ship has been to sea for a day or two, it
is?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I think it is possibly put out the day of sailing, sir, but really; I could not
answer that question.
Senator SMITH.
I wonder if we can obtain it.
Mr. FRANKLIN.
There is always one out the day of sailing, and there is a corrected one out
later. We can give you the one out the day of sailing.
Senator SMITH.
That is the one I would like.
Mr. FRANKLIN.
Whether we can get you the corrected one or not is an open problem.
Senator SMITH.
I will ask you with what type of davit was the Titanic equipped?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
What is known as the Welin patent.
Senator SMITH.
Where were those passengers or people congregated when you last saw the Titanic?
Were they huddled together into any special part of the ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
In sinking, did the ship tilt?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
To the fore?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How much?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Well, roughly, the crow's
nest was level with the water when the bridge went
under water.
Senator SMITH.
The crow's nest, at the fore point?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That is on the foremast. The lookout cage.
Senator SMITH.
The crow's nest at the highest point?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Was in the water?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Was just about level with the water.
Senator SMITH.
When the bridge was submerged?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And about what was the angle?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I am afraid I could hardly tell you the angle, sir.
Mr. KIRLIN.
Get the plan and find the height of the crow's nest above the deck, and that
would give it.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The plan showing the height of the crow's nest and the bridge would give it to
you, roughly.
Senator SMITH.
I ask you again. There must have been a great number of passengers and crew
still on the boat, the part of the boat that was not submerged, probably on the
high point, so far as possible. Were they huddled together?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say, sir. They did not seem to be. I could not say, sir; I did not
notice; there were a great many of them; there was a great many of them, I
know, but as to what condition they were in, huddled or not, I do not know.
Senator SMITH.
Did they make any demonstration?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
None.
Senator SMITH.
Was there any lamentation?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; not a sign of it.
Senator SMITH.
There must have been about 2,000 people there on that part - the unsubmerged
part of the boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
All the engineers and other men and many of the firemen were down below and
never came on deck at all.
Senator SMITH.
They never came on deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; they were never seen. That would reduce it by a great number.
Senator SMITH.
After this impact, did you hear any explosion of any kind?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
None whatever, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What would be the effect of water at about zero -
Mr. LIGHTOLLER. (interposing)
At about freezing?
Senator SMITH.
What would be the effect of water at about freezing on the boilers?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It is an open question. I have heard it said that they will explode, and others
say they will not.
Senator SMITH.
Have you ever known of a case?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Of a case in point?
Senator SMITH.
Where they have exploded?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I was sucked down, and I was blown out with something pretty powerful when the
ship went down.
Senator SMITH.
After the ship went down?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
Just describe that a little more fully. You were sucked down?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I was sucked against the blower first of all. As I say, I was on top of
the officers'
quarters, and there was nothing more to be done. The ship then took a dive,
and I turned face forward and also took a dive.
Senator SMITH.
From which side?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
From on top, practically midships; a little to the starboard side, where I had
got to; and I was driven back against a blower - which is a large thing that
shape (indicating) which faces forward to the wind and which then goes down to
the stokehole. But there is a grating there, and it was against this grating
that I was sucked by the water and held there.
Senator SMITH.
Was your head above water?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You were under water?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir. And then this explosion, or whatever it was, took place. Certainly, I
think it was the boilers exploded. There was a terrific blast of air and water,
and I was blown out clear.
Senator SMITH.
Was there any debris that was blown above the surface?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That I could not say.
Senator SMITH.
At least you took your head out of the water?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I came up above the water; yes.
Senator SMITH.
And how far from the sinking ship did it throw you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Barely threw me away at all; barely threw me away at all, because I went down
again against these fiddley gratings immediately abreast of the funnel over the
stokehole.
Senator SMITH.
Was anybody else sucked down at the time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Col. Gracie, I
believe, was sucked down in identically the same manner. He was sucked down on
the fiddley gratings.
Senator SMITH.
There must have been considerable suction?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That was the water rushing down below as she was going down.
Senator SMITH.
Going down into the ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Exactly.
Senator SMITH.
How did you get released from that?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Oh, I don't know, sir. I think it was the boilers again, but I do not
distinctly remember. I do not know.
Senator SMITH.
Where did you next find yourself?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Alongside of that raft.
Senator SMITH.
Where?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Alongside of that upturned boat that
had been launched on the other side.
Senator SMITH.
Where had you gone at that time? Had you gone around the ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; the boat had come around.
Senator SMITH.
Was there anyone on it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I don't think so. I think they were around it.
Senator SMITH.
Your position had not changed, but the boat's position had?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Were there any watertight compartments in that ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How many?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not tell you offhand, sir: 40 or 50.
Senator SMITH.
Nearly 50?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I say 40 or 50; I can not tell you offhand
Senator SMITH.
How were they constructed?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
They were divisional bulkheads; watertight doors, operated by electricity or
mechanically.
Senator SMITH.
Were those watertight compartments known to the passengers or crew?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
They must have been.
Senator SMITH.
How would they know it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
By the plans distributed about the ship.
Senator SMITH.
Were they advised at any time that there were watertight compartments - about
how many?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Forty or fifty.
Senator SMITH.
Were they advised that there were 40 or 50 watertight compartments?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You heard nothing of that kind and gave no such warning yourself?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Are you able to say whether any of the crew or passengers took to these upper
watertight compartments as a final, last resort; I mean as a place to die?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I am quite unable to say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Is that at all likely?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; very unlikely.
Senator SMITH.
As for yourself, you preferred to take your chance in the open sea?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Undoubtedly.
Senator SMITH.
Where were those compartments with reference to the boat deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Below the boat deck, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How far below?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
They extend from the bottom of the ship about four decks up.
Senator SMITH.
Would they extend up as high as 50 feet?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About that.
Senator SMITH.
Above the water?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Oh, they are above the water line; they extend above the water line.
Senator SMITH.
Are they all above the water line?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; from the bottom of the ship up to above the water line.
Senator SMITH.
Have you been in any of the watertight compartments of the Titanic?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I have been in all of them.
Senator SMITH.
What are these doors made of?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
As far as I understand, of metal for that purpose.
Senator SMITH.
And how are they fastened? Are they locked by bar, or bolt, or key?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The lower section of the watertight doors fore and aft the ship are operated by
electricity and they automatically lock themselves, and can not be touched
whilst the current is on.
Senator SMITH.
How can they be opened?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
By switching the current off and opening them by hand down below.
Senator SMITH.
If there were no current how could they be opened?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
By hand.
Senator SMITH.
In what manner?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
By ratchet and screw, lever and cogwheel.
Senator SMITH.
A person would have to be rather familiar with that construction in order to
open them?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir; the handle is right alongside every door, and the manner for opening
them is obvious.
Senator SMITH.
But when the doors are closed and the current is on?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I am only speaking of those at the bottom of the ship.
Senator SMITH.
Let us go up a little higher, and tell me about the doors, and the construction
there.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
They are operated by hand, closed by lever. They can be closed from the deck
above, or from the deck you are on. There is a specially constructed key that
fits into the deck above. When you turn it around, the door closes. One man can
close or open it.
Senator SMITH.
You must first have a key?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes; keys are kept alongside of the doors. When the door is closed it so
engages a system or series of wedges that it is watertight.
Senator SMITH.
What are those watertight compartments for?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
To shut out the water, retaining the water in one compartment, to prevent its
going fore and aft the ship.
Senator SMITH.
How much of the ship had gone down when you left it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I went under water on top of the officers' quarters, immediately at the fore
part of the forward funnel; so she was under water at the fore part of the
forward funnel.
Senator NEWLANDS.
You say that after you came up you attached yourself to this raft the funnel
fell upon those who were upon one side of the raft?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I say the funnel fell down, and if anybody was on that side of the raft it fell
on them.
Senator NEWLANDS.
Then by that time the entire ship was not submerged?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Oh, dear, no; not by considerable.
Senator NEWLANDS.
What portion of the ship was out of water at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The stern of the ship was completely out of the water.
Senator SMITH.
It was out of water, at an angle?
Senator NEWLANDS.
Yes, I see.
Senator SMITH.
What other officers besides yourself survived?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The third, fourth, and fifth, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Will you kindly give their names?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Mr. Pitman,
third officer; Mr.
Boxhall, fourth officer; and Mr. Lowe, fifth
officer.
Senator SMITH.
You had better give their initials.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Mr. H. J. Pitman, third officer; Mr. J. G. Boxhall, fourth officer; and Mr. G.
Lowe, fifth officer.